It’s the tale of two brothers. Max Winkler’s latest, Jungleland, looks like a fight movie on the outside but beneath there’s a love story – one that the writer/director describes as one about two brothers unable to say they love each other.
Released on digital platforms on Monday, 30th November, the film stars Charlie Hunnam and Jack O’Connell as the brothers, up to their necks in debt and on a road trip that should solve all their problems. Stanley (O’Connell) is a bare knuckle fighter, struggling to scratch a living in the ring, with brother Walter (Hunnam) acting as his manager. But he gets them into debt with a local gangster and the only way out is a big fight contest which should bring in the money they need. To complicate matters, they have a reluctant passenger on the journey, Sky (Jessica Barden), who gradually drives a wedge between the two men.
For Winkler, getting the right actors for the main roles was crucial, so he had no worries about casting a trio of Brits, rather than American actors. And, as Barden recalls, the fact that they all came from similar backgrounds meant they were able to bond quickly – even having to do American accents didn’t get in the way. Winkler also talks about the inspiration for the movie, while he and Barden also discuss whether Charlie Hunnam should make the shortlist of contenders to play the next James Bond. And they have very different views …….
Congratulations both on the film. Max, you directed, co-wrote, co-produced the film, so it’s very much your project. I wonder where the story originally came from? What inspired it?
Max: I was interested in doing an unconventional love story between two men. For me, the metaphor of the movie is a toxic relationship that you could apply to any relationship between two people. They don’t know how to quit each other – say goodbye to one another, even though they know it is the inevitable boulder right ahead of them. Putting two men who are grappling with their emotions and masculinity and how to say I love you’ to the other one – and their inability to find the words for it, I thought would be an interesting way to explore those themes, as well as people who were out of touch with the American dream – even though the American dream doesn’t want them.
So, did you have any boxing movies or fight movies in the back of your mind. I was thinking of films like The Fighter, maybe?
Max: No, I didn’t think about The Fighter, as much as I love that movie. I was thinking about John Huston’s Fat City, and I was thinking about Walter Hill’s Hard Times. I though a lot about Michael Mann’s Ali, in a lot of ways; the relationship between the brothers, and the characters and all that stuff, was rooted in John Steinbeck – male melodrama were my big influences for that. The fighting was the least important aspect of the conception of the movie.
It’s the love story that’s the most important side of it then?
Max: To me, yes. The movie should be able to work whether you see a boxing scene or not. The boxing was the least important aspect, to me. It was really about how these three characters who all are in search of something, reflect off of each other.
Jessica, there is a more conventional love story in there as well. But there’s more to your character than that. I wondered if that was part of the appeal?
Jessica: Definitely. Everything that Max spoke about just now was what I saw in the script as well. I really wanted to be part of a movie that was exploring that between two brothers and two men. What attracted me to the role was – It was a chance for me to play four or five different characters at the same time. We don’t really know what her motive is. Is the love story conventional? I don’t know. Is it real? She is playing her own games. It was a movie that I wanted to be in. It was the chance to play somebody who was straight up playing everyone all the time.
How do you about building your on-screen relationship with Charlie Hunnam and Jack O’Connell. Did you have the luxury of rehearsals to do that?
Jessica: I think the boys rehearsed. I was filming something when they started this. I did come a few days before I started. I prefer to do more on instinct and that was really easy to do on this production. Jack and Charlie were really set in the characters. I think with Charlie – we had a lot of conversations about our scenes. Stanley and Sky – their relationship was more above board. With Lion and Sky it was a lot more manipulation, you could say, was going on but me and Jack didn’t really discuss it a lot. Both ways of working worked perfectly for me. There wasn’t a lot of rehearsal but I didn’t mind that anyway.
Max, you’ve actually got three British actors in the main role – which is a bit of a surprise. How did you go about getting them on board?
Max: My only requirement was that they could do the accents, which they all could, and besides that, they are just three individually brilliant actors who completely understood where their characters were from, and their backgrounds – and the rest was really easy. There was very little conversation about motivation or pathology or thinking about where these characters were from, and what they did to survive. My only concern was ‘can they do the accent’, and all three could and were extremely devoted to working with the dialect coach who was wonderful. It was probably the easiest casting I ever had to do.
Jessica, Max is obviously very pleased with your American accent. How easy was it for you get that accent right?
Jessica: I really enjoy doing accents. Everything that I’ve done has been [with] an accent, apart from one TV show – that was the only time I’ve really done my own voice. I really enjoy working with dialect coaches. I love the process of it. I don’t think I’m wrong in speaking for all three of us, but I think all three of us really enjoy working in America, enjoy working with different accents. If you enjoy doing something, it’s easy. The dialect coach was fantastic. She was a director herself, of theatre. She didn’t step on anybody’s feet. It was just a great experience for all three of us. Really.
Max, things are a little bit quiet at the moment due to the current situation, but I gather you’ve been working on another film alongside Charlie Hunnam. Is that right?
Max: Yes, the next movie I’m going to make is with Charlie Hunnam. In the spring.
Is there anything more you can tell me about that?
Max: Yes, it’s based on a memoir by this writer, a nature photographer named Ben Moon, who wrote a memoir about his life and his experiences living in a van with his dog in the Pacific NorthWest for twelve years, and both Charlie and me were really transfixed by it. So we’re going to try and make that this spring. The book is called Denali but the movie doesn’t have a title yet.
Still on the subject of Charlie. There’s been a lot of speculation recently about who the next James Bind will be and it seems Charlie’s name is in the frame. Do you think he’d make a decent James Bond?
Max: Yes, Charlie can do anything he sets his mind to. He’s a really, really terrific actor and has a work ethic that is unparalleled to anyone I’ve met in my time in making movies. Whatever he wants to do he will be good at.
Jessica: I don’t think he should be James Bond. He’s way cooler than James Bond. I think James Bond would be very lucky if they cast Charlie Hunnam.
Jungleland is released on digital platforms on Monday, 30 November.
