Kyle Gallner has been acting since he was a teenager and has appeared in a range of movies over the years including Jennifer’s Body, The Finest Hours, and most recently, Scream and Smile. In 2023, the actor released several amazing projects, but due to the SAG-AFTRA strike, was unable to discuss them. However, as soon as the strike was over THN grabbed the opportunity to speak with the actor at length about his films.
Yesterday we began our three part interview with a delve into Gallner’s Mother, May I? Today The Passenger steps into the spotlight. Directed by Carter Smith for MGM and Blumhouse, The Passenger is an unsettling look at male relationships and trauma. Gallner plays Benson, a fast-food worker who, after committing a mass murder, takes his younger co-worker, Randy (Johnny Berchtold), hostage. Although confronting, The Passenger is an exceptional film. We highly recommend you watch it before reading on as there are heavy spoilers throughout.
Like Emmett in Mother, May I?, Benson has a lot of trauma and tragedy in his life. You seem to be drawn to characters with troubled pasts, why do you think this is?
I don’t necessarily know if I’m drawn to these characters as much as sometimes I’m at the mercy of what I can get as an actor. It’s tough, the audition process and all that, but that being said, I will say I do find characters like that interesting. I like characters that you can dig into. I like characters that have a lot going on. I like characters where there’s a lot of world-building you can create. I feel like with complex people and complex characters, you can get more specific. A, they’re a challenge, but also B, they’re incredibly interesting because you have to dive into places that you wouldn’t necessarily have to dive into in your everyday life.
You have to try to understand a person that you would never really have to understand. Or try to justify some incredibly unjustifiable actions. Why is this person doing this? Why does this person feel that way? And I think there’s a complexity to those characters that I just find really interesting.
The problem is that the super complex characters are always complete fucking maniacs to some regard. Or have something going on. But that’s kind of the point of acting like. I didn’t get into this to just play a bunch of Kyle’s, a bunch of me all the time walking around and just being like “hey, how are you? Good, nice to meet you”. To me, that’s not interesting. So yeah, Emmett and Benson definitely gave me a lot to dig into. I think it’s a little bit of a coincidence. They definitely both have their own very heavy past trauma or situation that they’ve dealt with. They just both handle it incredibly differently.
Audiences often respond better to these complex characters as there is often some kind of shared experience.
I totally agree. I think especially in something like The Passenger. I think people watching it see a little bit of themselves in Randy and Benson. Or much more of one than the other. But there is something there that I think everybody can relate to. We’ve all been Randy at one point, where we’ve all wanted to do a Benson, maybe not to the extreme of the burger scene… It is relatable feelings, relatable emotions, feelings of feeling helpless, or rage, or wanting to be angry at the bully, or wishing I could stand up for myself. Wishing I could talk back to my family or wishing I was in a better situation. I think people tend to relate to characters’ hardships more than like, “Oh, I climbed that mountain too, and I had a great time, just like that guy.” That’s not to say it doesn’t happen. But I think the things that draw out the real human emotion is what the audience is going to latch onto more, because at one point in time or another, they’ve at least felt a version of these things.
That was one of the main challenges of The Passenger – how do I get audiences to not just hate Benson? Because you should hate Benson for what he’s done. But at the same time, outside of the really horrible event at the beginning, there is so much to relate to with Benson. That’s always the challenge of playing somebody like that. How do you make them relatable? If you’re just twisting your moustache and doing bad guy shit… I mean yeah that can be fun depending on the movie, but that’s not what this film is. This film is more of a character piece.
In spite of Benson’s horrific crime, there is an opportunity for the audience to feel for him. He does a bad thing, but the audience can understand why to a degree.
It’s so tricky, but at the same time Benson never stood a chance. He’s just one of those kids who never had a chance, and as fucked up as it is, we’ve all had the bully fantasy. We’ve all gone to some fucked-up places. That’s not saying you should act on them, but there are these relatable moments in this film. As bad as Benson is in those moments, you get to know him, his home life, and you get to learn about his past a little bit. Then you also see like how he genuinely cares for Randy and how he really does think he’s doing something good in his own fucked-up way. He starts to become this… or that was at least my goal, he starts to in a weird way become this very relatable character. The same for Randy. You really can start to see yourself in both of these characters in this crazy situation. It’s bizarrely a very tender movie in a weird way. The first twenty minutes are incredibly intense and then it really does become kind of a tender film in some ways. It’s still really heavy and dark and and I think sometimes funny and incredibly fucked up, but I think it’s it’s definitely not as on the nose as I think some people expected going into the film.
You mention the first twenty minutes being tough to get through. It’s like Dinner in America all over again. I guess that must be another Kyle tick box along with damaged characters, but the opening here is far more brutal than Dinner in America.
That burger scene is so visceral and jarring. They sent me the film to watch and I mean I watched it and it was like…I think Johnny said the same thing, but I paused it when it was over. I was like, “holy shit.” I knew what was gonna happen and it still rocked me. It’s a really intense jarring scene. Carter did an amazing job with the film, but that scene in particular is out of control. It just feels so real and with the speed of it happening. That’s what makes it so scary. It’s just a decision and it’s done. It’s really scary.
Yeah, these scenes in films are often portrayed with a lot of fast edits, music over the top, but here it is just systematic, controlled, and somewhat quiet. It’s intense and probably horribly close to what these scenarios are like in real life. Which just makes it even harder to watch.
Especially living in the United States. That was one thing I was worried about. That, unfortunately, is such a reality here. It’s such a real thing that I was wondering how that would be. Because these are a daily occurrence here, which is horrifying.
What do you think Benson’s intentions were? To me, at least initially, it felt like Benson was just going after the bully and the manager is collateral. I think the girl only dies because she won’t stop screaming. How did you see it?
I think at that moment, he made two decisions. I think he was like, “I’ve had enough, that’s it”. Like, “this is it, this is over”, and made the decision to go out, get the gun, and do what he did. He definitely was going after the bully and then I think once you start it’s sort of that moment of “what am I going to do here?” There’s a lot happening and then he gets to Randy and then there’s just this decision that “it’s over for me anyway, so you’re coming with me and I’m going to try to help you so you don’t become me.” There’s a lot happening in that scene. That’s an interesting question. I don’t know if I totally thought that out, if he was ever just going to bully or was going for everybody.
There does seem to be a mirror between Benson and Randy.
100%. I think in Benson’s mind he knows, especially when he takes Randy, he knows it’s over. He knows for him, it’s done. At the end of the day, whatever happens, whatever plan he has, I think there’s this part of him that knows “this is it.” Benson thinks, “I’m going to take whatever moment this is and whatever time I have to make sure this fucking kid does not end up like I ended up, because he’s not completely doomed yet.”I think in Benson’s mind, he just knows he’s doomed.
I think Benson is just sort of existing. Whereas Randy took all of his trauma and internalised it, Benson took all of his and went very outward with it. He challenges everybody and everything from his attitude, to the way he dresses, and I think he wants to instil a little bit of that into Randy and come out of himself. So he doesn’t just disappear into the background forever or let what happened to him define him for the rest of his life.
I read their dynamic as Benson viewing Randy as himself ten years ago. In him he sees a younger version of himself that hasn’t hit that crossroad yet. The film is very much everything to do with saving Randy’s soul.
That’s exactly it. I think what you said is the probably more succinct version of what I was trying to say. That’s 100% it. There’s this intimacy in the film between these two characters. It’s almost like when Benson reaches out and comforts Randy and does these things, there’s these very intimate moments between these two men in a very confined space. It’s very intense, but it’s almost like him comforting Randy, in a weird way, is like the way he wished someone would have comforted him, or he’s comforting himself.
A lot of the movie is pretty quiet and pretty intimate. It’s been funny to read people’s takes on it. On the intimacy in the film. A lot of people are like, “why don’t they just kiss?!” I thought it was just such an intuitive and cool take on male intimacy and friendship, because in a way it turns into this fucked-up buddy road trip movie. There was so much to play with and so much to discover. One of the aspects of Benson that was discovered on set is that I do think Benson is probably fluid. I don’t think Benson’s just a straight man going through this.
I guess with Carter Smith as the director, and the types of stories he has told before, people are actively seeking those queer undertones.
But what I love about Carter is he’s so good with character and story telling. Nothing is like a sledgehammer to the head. We all kind of discovered Benson’s sexuality together as we were making the film. It wasn’t necessarily on the page, but it just came naturally and just felt right and Carter just really nurtured that in a way that I was, “that feels right.” It wasn’t like, “well, let’s lean into that more and really really hit that” and that was, that was great. He just let Benson be Benson, and Randy be Randy, and have these two interact the way that they would for the story, and I really appreciate his trust. His willingness to just be flexible and play and bounce ideas. He really was just an incredible director.
He would give great notes. We would talk about things like the Mr. Shepherd thing. We built up a back story and he was so open. At one point I went out to him and said, “look I need Shepherd to die.” That wasn’t in the script. Mr. Shepherd didn’t die. I just beat him up, but I was “I have to kill him” because of what we talked about and what we’d built and he was open to those changes. It was a really special experience working with him.
I think Benson’s cardigan is key too. It’s this fluffy thing, which looks out of character with his personality, but it’s also giving him that comfort that no one else is.
It’s a combination of that and the combination of “look at me. Fuck you. I dare.” It’s a two-parter. It’s like with the rabbit shirt and everything. I mean he is loud in everything he does, not necessarily loud vocally, but there’s always a challenge. There’s always this put forward thing of almost daring people all the time. Pushing people away and in his own way.
But also yeah, you’re right, I mean that cardigan is incredibly comfortable and I think there’s a big part of that as well. I think it’s a combination of the two and Carter did a great job, you know working with wardrobe on coming up with that. They hand-dyed that. That was originally a grey cardigan and they hand dyed it to be, the way I described it is you’ve skinned the Grinch. That’s literally the exact colour that it is. They presented it at first I was “what the fuck, this is wild”” and then I put it on and it just felt so right. Carter’s just incredibly talented, he’s got an amazing eye. He’s an incredible photographer. He knows what he’s doing.
You and Johnny Berchtold clearly developed a strong bond. You still have this big brother, little brother vibe. How was he to work with?
Like I said to Johnny when we were done, and I mean it, there is no Benson without Randy. What I mean by that is that if he weren’t as committed and as game as he was, I couldn’t do my job the way I needed to do my job. Benson’s fucking intense, all the time. I am constantly grabbing him, pulling him, pushing him. I mean shoving him into the wall. If I had to baby somebody, it would show. If I had to deal with somebody who is, “oh don’t touch me”, it wouldn’t work. Johnny was so unbelievably game.
I feel terrible, but there were times where I would reach over and grab him. There was one scene that got re-edited, but fuck man I reached over and grabbed him, and at one point I got way more than just jacket. He was just bruised and I felt terrible, but he just always rolled with it and was “you do what you need to do. Let’s just push this thing as far as we can.” To his credit, we did. Randy allowed Benson to live, and Johnny allowed my Benson to live because of how willing and game he was to perform the way that he did, and play in this world the way that he did.
Also, outside of the physical stuff and me fucking beat him up, his performance was incredibly nuanced and quiet. That is such a hard thing to do what Johnny did. To be able to be the quiet one and still have such a powerful performance, and make such subtle and interesting choices, and really keep the Randy character interesting while this hurricane is fucking happening around him.
I was really impressed with Johnny and it was a bonding experience for sure. We went through it emotionally. We went through it physically. We were in a car together for half the time. We were in very close quarters and tight together all the time, so we got to know each other really well in a short period of time. We really hit it off and Johnny’s a special kid. He’s got this energy about him that people just want to be in his orbit. He’s just a great guy and I think it’s going to serve him incredibly well, and I think he’s very talented. I love that dude.
Another similarity that seems to be running through your recent work is game co-stars. Like Emily Skeggs in Dinner in America, as Simon you are so mean to her Patty!
I truly have been incredibly lucky recently. That’s not to say other things haven’t been great. But there’s just been a magical sauce of some kind of just the combination of script, director, co-star and everything. I’ve just been really lucky with my co-stars. Emily, Johnny, and Holland, just who are really coming to play in these sort of heightened intense crazy spaces. You need people like that because if you have baby people or if you have to constantly be worrying about somebody, you can’t focus on your job. If everybody comes to play and everybody can just keep pushing it further and further. I’ve been real lucky with that recently to have a few projects where people have just come swinging.
The Passenger communicates so much non-verbally. Like the scene in the car, you know everything you need to know about the pair just by how they are sat. Benson is manspreading and smoking, one hand on the wheel, no seatbelt. Randy is strapped in, tight and rigid. This film is brilliant at communicating without words.
Which I think is great too, because realistically if you think about the movie, the only time anybody really outwardly on the nose is “this was my problem” – is when Randy talks about the incident at school. Otherwise, with Benson it’s his physicality. It’s walking into his house. You don’t say anything. You just see it all. It’s the way he attacks that teacher. We don’t talk about what happened, but you sure as shit can guess what happened. It’s not this thing of “let’s spell everything out for you.” Instead it’s, “follow along, come along for the ride,” and you get to know these characters just by the way, they’re living their lives. I think that’s really interesting.
I was reading some comments about the film and it’s funny how people either love that, or it drives them crazy because things aren’t completely spelled out. Even the ending, some people wanted it to be this big grand thing, but that’s not real life. If it turned into that, it would betray the film. What I like about this is it feels an incredible slice of life, even though it’s in a heightened world, it feels very grounded. I love that we don’t just spell everything out for everybody. Obviously Benson monologues on his own thing, but that’s just part of his character. But I love that the only time you really sit down and explain anything is the moment when Randy talks about the teacher. It’s the biggest emotional vomit of his life, and then Benson just fucking laughs at him. It’s so fucking smart. You take this character’s entire emotional journey and have somebody laugh in his face about it.
I love how meticulous Carter has been, there is so much to read into everything, even just the title alone has multiple interpretations. Given the Blumhouse umbrella, I think most are expecting something very different.
So because it was the MGM plus deal – they had like 10 movies with Blumhouse through MGM plus – Carter actually asked them if he could go find his own. A lot of the scripts were given to directors, but Carter was, “I want to go find my own thing if that’s okay?” and they let him. Carter actually sought out a movie and got this. He was supposed to originally make something else and he found The Passenger. I definitely think people who watch it are surprised. I think they do think it’s going to be much more of a straightforward horror movie, and then it’s totally not that.
The Passenger is available to watch on Digital in the UK and on MGM+ and Prime in the US.
